Federal regulators are close to filing lawsuits against companies believed to be behind a national wave of spam “robocalls” warning people that their auto warranties are about to expire and they need to sign up for new service plans.

Schumer says the message “Your Car Warranty Has Expired” already has brought some 300,000 complaints nationwide.

After speaking to Jimmy that time, I complained to the FCC, the FTC and the Better Business Bureau of Kansas State. I also blogged about it here and I can only assume that one of those complaints got back to him somehow and now he’s trying to get back.

Here’s what happened:
Jimmy calls me and says he needs to talk to me. I try talking to him, but he tells me that he can’t hear me because I am in a bar. I tell him I would be out of the bar in about an hour (I didn’t want to leave my friends). Right before hanging up he tells me this:

“I’m going to post your personal information on the complaint you wrote about us! (click.)”

What the hell? I thought he was calling to follow up on my questions about getting an auto warranty. But he was calling out of anger. Poor Jimmy. Must be aggrieved that I only spoke to him so long so that I could get information about his company. I don’t have anything against Jimmy – he’s just trying to earn a living. Probably has a family and probably likes to get a drink after work on a Friday evening, just like me.

But then, 10 minutes later, my cell phone rings again with a Kansas number. It’s Jimmy calling back already. So this time I leave the bar to talk to him. I want to know why he’s going to post my personal information. But all he wants to do is ask me a question over and over. Here’s what he asked:

JIMMY: Did you want me to call you back in an hour?
ME: The bar was too loud and I didn’t want to leave until then.
JIMMY: Can you just tell me that you wanted me to call you back in an hour?
ME: I wanted to talk, but I couldn’t leave until then, but I can talk now.
JIMMY: Can you confirm that you wanted me to call you back in an hour.
ME: Yes, because that’s when I thought I’d be able to leave, but I’m willing to talk now. What did you want to talk about?
JIMMY: I just wanted you to confirm that you wanted me to call you in an hour. I’m recording this (click!)

That’s it! Was Jimmy from Fidelity National Warranty – one of the auto warranty telemarketing companies – actually calling me to get me on tape telling him that I wanted him to call me? I presume that was to counter my complaint, but for God’s sake, of course I wanted to talk to him if he was threatening to post my personal information.

Let’s get this straight: I’m the consumer – one of millions it seems – getting harassed with calls telling me I have to extend the factory warranty on my vehicle and the company that makes money from these calls is calling me when I’m at a bar on a Friday evening to get me on tape saying that I wanted him to call me back in an hour.

I didn’t quite know where this investigation would lead me, but I had no idea it would lead to this.

I don’t know about the legality of a telemarketing company recording a telephone conversation with a consumer without the consumer’s consent, but a quick search online tells me this:

“The FCC requires that all parties in a recorded interstate call must be notified either verbally or through an intermittent beep.”

Either way, I stand by the complaints that I filed in my pursuit to put an end to these harassing calls that I receive on a regular basis. I have not been belligerent. I have not violated any laws. I simply tried to get the name of the company behind the illegal calls so that I could file a complaint as is my right as a consumer. I can only assume a company would be irate after that complaint because of the negative affect the complaint would have on its reputation. For the company to threaten me like this seems like another threat to that company’s reputation.

For the record, I have not encouraged anyone to post personal information about people involved with these companies. All I wish to do is put an end to the calls (and perhaps get reimbursed for the minutes used on my cell phone plan). Also for the record, I have blocked comments posted on this site from people who attempted to post the personal phone information of people who they suspected were involved with these companies. I had no proof of those claims, so as a responsible person, I did not allow their comments to stay online.

I’m waiting to see if Jimmy from Fidelity National Warranty will follow through on his threat. We’ll see what happens next.

I filed a complaint with the Federal Communications Commission. I understand they enforce complaints made regarding unsolicited phone calls that violate the TCPA. I was encouraged by their questions (e.g. was this call pre-recorded, to a cell phone, expressing urgency, etc.). We’ll see what happens.

Here’s the link to do this yourself.

Filed a complaint to the Federal Trade Commission with the information on the two companies I connected to the robocalls. Whatever the outcome might be, it certainly feels satisfying.

I’m also encouraged by this notice: “Your complaint has been entered into Consumer Sentinel, a secure online database available to thousands of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies worldwide.”
Here’s the link to do this yourself.

Fidelity National Warranty
804 Meadowbrook Dr., Suite 100-B
Olathe, KS 6602
1-877-847-7799

Here’s what happened:

I get the call. I press 1. I speak to a rep. I tell them a car model and year (VW Passat, 2000).
I get transferred to a representative named Jimmy.
Jimmy asks me the same questions, tells me he can get me a warranty.
I tell him my battery might die, so I need his number to call back.
Jimmy tells me he can call me.
I tell Jimmy I don’t know the number of my landline, so Jimmy gives me his number: 1-877-847-7799 x128
I ask Jimmy the company, he tells me it’s Fidelity National Warranty.
I look it up. Bingo, it’s a company based in Oathe, Kansas.

Here’s info I gleaned from the Kansas business directory

Entity name: FIDELITY NATIONAL WARRANTY, INC.
Entity ID: 4268728
Previous Names: PATRIOT WARRANTY COMPANY, INC.
Current Status: ACTIVE AND IN GOOD STANDING
Current Mailing Address: 804 MEADOWBROOK DR SUITE 100-B , OLATHE, KS 66062
Date of Formation in Kansas: 12/22/2008
State of Organization: KS
Resident Agent: MICHAEL J. FISCHER
Registered Office: 11000 KING , OVERLAND PARK, KS 66210

So it’s a company registered in Kansas that formed in December 2008. I wonder if they were something else before then. A search for Patriot Warranty (the previous name listed) comes up with the same entity on the Kansas directory.

What this means:
As theorized by a commenter, there seems to be some kind of third party service responsible for the illegal auto-dialing that connects to various companies that want to sell auto insurance. One time it connected me to Automotive Warranty Protection Services, aka National Dealers Warranty Inc., (based in Missouri, currently being sued by Verizon – although not the company that settled). This time it connected me to Fidelity National Warranty (not to be confused with US Fidelis, aka National Auto Warranty Services, which WAS one of the companies that just settled with Verizon).

I agree with that commenter that the company in The Netherlands that was named in the Verizon suit is probably behind this third-party company. A search for that company – Tele Europe, B.V. – comes up with a couple of different phone numbers. I tried one and it gets to a different company, but apparently that company is in the same building as Tele Europe. I just spoke to the guy who answers that phone and he gave me the building’s reception number. I tried calling, but it’s after business hours in the Netherlands, so I’ll have to wait until tomorrow.

In the meantime, I will ask the Verizon rep who was on the Brian Lehrer Show if he’ll give me a contact for Tele Europe. Then we might get closer to the source of these illegal calls.

If anyone has any other suggestions, please keep them coming.

If you’re interested, here is some other information I got from the call:

The quote
For my theoretical car, a 2000 Volkswagen Passat GPL 4 Motion with 100,000 miles, he quoted me $3,370 for four years.

The coverage
He said that gave me comprehensive coverage that included everything on the vehicle like seals and gaskets that he said even the manufacturer doesn’t cover. He said it was accepted at mechanics nationwide and any VW dealer. He also said it came with a breakdown service, rental car reimbursement. He said the insurance company was called Century, who have been in business since 1987. I asked why I couldn’t just call them and he said they don’t sell direct to the consumer.

The shady part
Here’s something interesting: After I gave him the initial information about the car, he transferred me to an “authorization specialist” named Chris. Chris told me they don’t normally offer coverage on vehicles without an inspection, but he would make an exception if I answered some questions over the phone. He asked me if there were any engine lights on or if there were any electrical problems. I said no and he said they could offer me coverage. I’m not sure how they “normally” offer coverage on vehicles they inspect if they only do business over the phone, but I assume that’s to give them some legal cover.

Now here’s what sounded shady to me. Before Chris passed me back to Jimmy, he told me they have a “no call-back policy.” He said that means I had to accept or decline coverage before getting off the phone. I said why and he said it was because some customers might not accept coverage and then hang up only to find something wrong with their vehicle and then call back. I asked why you couldn’t think about it and he said it was about “mutual trust.” Seemed like a hard sell to me.

The outcome
Chris passed me back to Jimmy who ran through all the other details. I asked Jimmy if I could think about it and call him back and he said cited the “no call-back policy” that Chris explained. I then told him I’d need to call him back because my battery was dying and he said fine. Isn’t that effectively a “call-back policy”? I just can’t call back if it’s to think about buying coverage. I hung up and called back another operator just to confirm it was the same company. It was. 15 minutes later I got a call from Jimmy, but I let it go to voicemail. He didn’t leave a message.

Because of that story, I was on WNYC’s The Brian Lehrer Show, talking about my story, along with a rep from Verizon.
I thought that by telling my story, other people would be able to track down the calls and file a complaint once they could prove which company it was. But I realize it’s not easy to get the information you need to file a complaint, so I figured I’d post this advice.

When you get the call,

1) Press 1 to speak to a representative.
2) This representative is unlikely to give any info about the company, so just tell them you are interested in the warranty. If they ask for a make and a model of a vehicle, give them one.
3) You will be transferred to a person who can give information about the company, so do whatever you can to get his phone number. I told them I had to call back with the mileage of the car and that my battery was dying. Only then did he give me his number.
4) Google the number. It should lead you to a website for one of the companies.

Now you should have the info you need. If you’re unsure of which company it really is, post it here and I will help (I’ve done lots of research into the various company names).

Today I did it! I tracked down the factory warranty call!

It’s Automotive Warranty Protection Services, aka National Dealers Warranty Inc., of St. Peters, Missouri.

A call today led me down a path of research that turned up the company’s name and details of  legal action for shady practices going back years that include the use of illegal telemarketing calls like the ones I and everyone else seem to be getting.

The company was even sued by the Missouri State Attorney General last year. They  settled for a moderate sum and a requirement that the company never use illegal automated calls again. Well I got a call from them today, so they appear to be continuing the practice in violation of this settlement, not to mention federal law.

[Note, this is not US Fidelis, a different warranty services company mentioned on many blogs as being behind the calls.  (not saying they don't do it themselves, but it's not the one I tracked down today). There was also a report on NBC's Today program about US Fidelis, as well as two investigative stories about its founder in the St. Louis Post Dispatch.]

Here’s exactly what happened today:

I got the robocall this afternoon on my cell phone (which is illegal, according to the consumer protection act).

Here’s how it went and the research it led me to:

I get the call: “This is the second notice…”
I wait until the message gets to the part with the numbers.
I press 1 to speak to a representative.
This time I take a different tactic:
Them: What’s the make and model of your vehicle?”
Me: I’m just curious about the price.
Them: Well I can connect you with a representative if you give me your vehicle information?
Me: What’s this company?
Them: Warranty Services
Me: What’s your name?
Them: Angie.
Me: What kind of service do you offer?
Angie: Vehicles fail after your warranty expires. We sell new warranties.
Me: Okay, transfer me to a representative.
Angie: Give me the make and model of your car.
Me: Okay, it’s a 1995 VW Jetta
Angie: Standby sir.
Angie: Okay sir, I have Justin on the line, he will speak to you about the warranty.
Justin: Hi sir, so you have a 1995 VW Jetta. What’s the mileage?
Me: I’m not sure. What kind of service do you provide?
Justin: We can get you a warranty with a 20% discount. It’s called The Choice Protection.
Me: Okay, what do I need to do?
Justin: Tell me the mileage of your car.
Me: I don’t know. Can I call you back?
Justin: I can hold while you get it.
Me: Oh, my car’s not here. I’ll have to call you back in 5 minutes.
Justin: I can call you back in 5 minutes.
Me: Actually, my cell phone battery is dying. I’ll have to call you.
Justin: Tell me the other number.
Me: I don’t know what it is yet.
Justin: Okay, here’s the number. 1-800-913-4558, extension 2114.
Me: Thank you.

I hang up. I dial the number. I hear a voice saying something about auto warranties, Derek speaking.

I hang up. I google the number. It leads to this site: www.autowps.com, which is for a company called Automotive Warranty Protection Services

I lookup the domain, autowps.com on Domain White Pages and it shows the site registered to this company: National Dealers Warranty Inc.

According to the St. Louis Better Business Bureau, National Dealers Warranty settled a lawsuit that was filed by the Attorney General of Missouri on March 6, 2008. The settlement included a financial penalty, but required changes in how the company conducts business, including this:

“Offering to sell motor vehicle extended service contracts through the use of automated telemarketing calls unless such calls are administered in full compliance with laws including, but not limited to, Do Not Call regulations and laws at the state and national level.”

Canadian authorities took legal action against this company earlier this year (related article). The Superintendant of Financial Institutions in British Columbia directed National Dealers Warranty and its management to cease operations there (PDF of the order).

The St. Louis Better Business Bureau, which gives the company an “F” rating,  states that people who complained about National Dealers Warranty allege the company “provided poor customer service, used high pressure sales tactics, failed to provide refunds, failed or refused to cancel policies, misrepresented coverage or used misleading advertising.”

The president of National Dealers Warranty is Rudge Gilman.

Here are other names of the company, listed by the BBB and the AG’s office:
Mark Travis – Vice President
Nick Hamilton – Secretary

The BBB also lists Steve Proetz as involved with National Dealers Warranty and he is listed as a co-owner of Automotive Warranty Protection, which I was transferred to by “Angie” when I got the call today and when I was transferred to “Justin”, who appears to be a representativefor that company.

Also, the administrative contact listed on the WhoIs domain search was someone named Travis Summers. I called the number listed for Travis and left a message. He immediately called me back and I asked him if his company engaged in automated dialing. Here’s what he said:

“We used to do it, we haven’t in a month a half.  It’s not paying off…it’s more hassle than it’s worth.”

I got an automated “robocall” today that I linked to the same company. They are still doing it.

Here are additional Phone Numbers for National Dealers Warranty listed by the BBB:
Tel: (800) 436-3185
Tel: (800) 485-1134
Tel: (800) 774-0041
Tel: (800) 701-1063

This was just one call that I got today. It was of a very similar nature to the dozens of calls I have been getting at work at home and on my cell phone since before last December. It is also of a similar nature to all the calls reported online and in the media.

This call alone is a violation of the law because it was an automated call made to a cell phone. That law is the Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991, which is administered by the FCC and the FTC (pdf link to the TCPA).

The FCC also lists facts for consumers about the act, which details the many ways in which these calls violate this law. Among them I found this:

“Some states permit you to file law suits in state court against persons or entities violating the do-not-call rules. You may be awarded $500 in damages or actual monetary loss, whichever is greater. The amount may be tripled if you are able to show that the caller violated the rules willfully and knowingly. Filing a complaint with the FCwC does not prevent you from also bringing a suit in state court”

I think I’ll be looking into what laws New York State permits. $500?

Here’s what Clay said:

“That’s where most of the ‘work from home’ links lead to…since no one who signs up to work from home cares about what they’ll be working on, there’s no real way to figure out which of the franchise telework operations are handling the warranty calls by searching.”

This is part of the thesis behind Clay’s influential book, Here Comes Everybody, which continues to help explain the big societal shifts we’re seeing.  Clay:

It used to be that when we saw coordinated activity, we assumed a formal organization was behind it.
Now, because coordination can come from tools instead of managers, you can get organization without organizations.

If Clay’s right, how can the FTC possibly enforce the Consumer Protection Act or even the Do Not Call list when there’s no central organization to charge?

The plot continues to thicken.

PS Thanks to Absurd Delight for the compliments. That blog also has links to some funny YouTube videos of people responding to these callers in what AD calls a “less journalistic” manner than me.

That Buzzfeed post pointed to a Reddit user (via BoingBoing Gadgets), who dug up info on what that user says is the company behind the calls. The name they came up with? National Auto Warranty Services, Inc aka US Fidelis, Inc.

I spoke with a guy from the Federal Trade Commission today and I asked him about the company. He said he can’t comment on whether a company is under investigation or not, but he was familiar with Fidelis. He also confirmed that any company calling a cell phone is violating the Consumer Protection Act and it’s the FTC’s job to go over such companies.

Stay tuned for more updates.

—–UPDATE:

It is NOT clear if that company is the one implicated. I just spoke to their press person and she told me that they stopped doing what they call “predictive” dialing a year ago. She also said it’s possible that a rival company is improperly using Fidelis’ name.

It’s important to note that the Reddit claim about the company involved has no evidence to back it up and until that happens we shouldn’t point fingers.

– REP. SARBANES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for being here.

…So if you could speak to that just a little bit more and maybe comment on the notion of having the design of the insurance be driven by the kind of providers that we’re trying to bring, you know, if we build it they will come kind of concept, because I could make the argument that we should choose the insurance model based on

– TELEPHONE OPERATOR: This is the second notice that the factory warranty on your vehicle may have expired and should be reactivated to protect you against the cost of repairs.

REP. SARBANES: I don’t know what that is. I’m going to talk through this, okay? We should pick the insurance model based on wanting to get more primary care providers in that. So what will incentivize them to do that? If you want to wait until that stops you can.

REP. PALLONE: I’m sorry. I don’t know exactly what’s going on.

REP. SARBANES: There we go.

REP. PALLONE: Hold on. Does somebody have their phone on or — I guess it’s over.

REP. SARBANES: I think it stopped, yeah.

REP. PALLONE: All right. We’ll continue.